Talk:Vahnatai

Can you please upload http://ryan-thompson.home.comcast.net/CrystalSoul.gif and http://ryan-thompson.home.comcast.net/VahnataiCrystal.gif ?

Done.

Done...

And done.

By the way, uploading pictures is still a royal pain, requiring me to first use the upload form, find out what folder it was trying to put the image into, then log in to ftp and create this folder (which safe mode won't allow automatically), and then upload again. I hope to have this fixed some time soon, but for now I'm the only one who can upload, and it's tedious.

Waveblades

It would be interesting to know in what way the waves actually make the blade more dangerous than an equally sharp, but straight sword from a similar material. I have some ideas, but I'm not sure of any of them... --- Aran 15:20, 31 Aug 2005 (CEST)

Magic Barriers

I don't know if this changed in A2, but my understanding is that the barriers sprang up throughout all of Exile, and not just around Formello. At any rate, Rentar put them up in an attempt to disrupt and disorient Exile while the Vahnatai gathered more information; they certainly weren't put up by Bon's group in an attempt to force a visit from Formello folk. --- Slartucker 08:57, 22 January 2006 (CST)

I don't know if they were widespread or not, but at this point Rentar and Bon were on the same side. I'm pretty sure that what's in the article about the purpose of the barriers is true. --Drakey

I looked it up. The introduction of A2 states clearly (quoting from game canon):

"Magical barriers appeared all over Avernum, splitting it into small sections and blocking the roads. Communication was difficult and carrying supplies was impossible."

In E/A2, Bon-Ihrno, Iglit, Prossis-Bok, and Rentar-Ihrno all make clear that the barriers were the first step in a planned campaign of destruction against Avernum. Iglit: "Our Vahnatai Council has started to attack you humans, by putting up magic barriers." --- Slartucker 20:40, 22 January 2006 (CST)

Population %

This section seems a little bit ridiculous. It makes sense if it's supposed to refer to the population we see in 823, but given an estimated population of 400,000 as listed right below, that means the Olgai clan has 10,000 Boks! (Sounds like a bad 80's song, hehe.) And 40,000 Tels -- that's a lot of mayors. Really, 1 mayor for every 10 Vahnatai? The thing is, the population we saw in E/A2 was not a random sample -- many Vahnatai made it clear that only important or powerful Vahnatai were awakened first, plus those who had critical jobs. So it's safe to say that Tels, Ihrnos, and Boks were vastly overrepresented.

Also, on titles, it seems like Te's and Ka's do use their titles after their names -- at least, some do so quite liberally in E/A2. --- Slartucker 09:11, 23 January 2006 (CST)

Ta - where is this used in A2, and is it used more than once? I have a little feeling that it could be a type on Ka if it's only used once. If not, I need to edit the Novah entry.

It is only used in reference to a single Vahnatai, but used multiple times (so it's not a typo) plus he explains what it means. This is an encounter that was not in Exile 2:

• You approach to speak with him. He says "Welcome, aliens. I have heard of your arrival. I am Zalav-Ta."
• You ask him about his people, and he says, "Well, I am honored that you wish to learn of us. The honorific Ta following my name means I am a learned one, a teacher. If you wish to receive lessons of my people, I would be honored to give them."
• "You bid farewell to Zalav-Ta. He bows as you go, saying, "Please come again. I wish for you to learn of our people. It would be for the best."
• You return to the hovel of Zalav-Ta. He is still willing to teach you of vahnatai ways.

---Slartucker 09:33, 25 January 2006 (CST)

Severe flaws?

Better than half of the information ascribed directly to the Vahnatai as a whole seems to be cultural and should almost definitely be part of Olgai tribe instead. Reporting on them as representative of the Vahnatai is only strictly accurate in a physiological sense; everything from crystal souls to razordisks to emphasis on learning is basically cultural. I'd like to work with whoever had the biggest hand in writing this article in rectifying the problem; the solution would probably be to consider a hypothetical tribe of Vahnatai Amish and retain any information which remains true, moving the rest to Olgai tribe. ACK47 02:00, 30 March 2006 (CST)

I'd work with you on this (I wrote this entry, after all), but remember that the other tribes of Vahnatai we've seen (in Valorim in Exile III and in VoDT) have seemed extremely similar. I doubt that the differences are really more pronounced than the differences between French and Germans. --Drakey

Rereading the article, I see very little that there is any reason to think wouldn't apply to most vahnatai. The one big exception is the relationship to humans section (and the notable vahnatai section), which should probably be moved to Olgai tribe when we write that.

Perhaps it would be helpful to have a note at the beginning of the article explaining the distinction between the Vahnatai as a whole and the Olgai tribe, and that most of our information comes from the Olgai tribe. --Slarty 09:22, 30 March 2006 (CST)

Thank you very much for the help. I'll have to talk to you the next time we're both around.

Anyway, the analogy is all right, but do bear in mind that the French and Germans are more or less the same 'tribe' in the great scheme of things; consider the difference between either of them and, say, the Iroquois, and consider how absurd an article written about the Iroquois as a stand-in for humanity would look in light of what we know of the French and Germans.

The Vahnatai appear similar, but that's partially due to graphical constraints (ALL Vahnatai appear similar!). If the other tribes of Vahnatai make reference to things like Resting and Crystal Souls and etc, I'd defer to your expertise on that one. E3 wasn't really my game, after all. -- Alec

The Vahnatai in Exile III are waking up Vahnatai that have been Resting, and I think there may be a Crystal Soul in there too. --Drakey